416-8C info please?

[gearfreak]

The lifelike dynamics from that short little horn have an intoxicating effect, so much so that they can alter our perception to a point where the missing octaves at both ends of the spectrum become almost moot.................. for a while.

Very well put I think, and wb2's very well written before that.

[music2myears]

Thanks!!!

The 816:s I listened to were vertically posistioned. I'll try to find out the xover points, but I do know that it's a passive system.

BTW: The 416-8C:s I've got, have ser. no:s 02605 & 02607 - an idea when these were made?

Here are some pics of them

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

BTW: The 416-8C:s I've got, have ser. no:s 02605 & 02607 - an idea when these were made?

Look for the EIA codes...... 391xxx, or with as late as the C is, it might have another digit. The extra digit is just a guess, Though. I don't know if Altec ever added another digit or not.

[bowtie427ss]

Those are what i call "flat mag" 416's, made for a relatively short window of time, i think circa 1982-84. Most 416-8C have a smaller diameter foilcal which is recessed into a slight depression in the back plate, and most had the rubber tire around the edge of the ferrite to protect it from chipping.

The 391XXX code might be difficult to find, the ones i remember from that era are stamped on the inside of a spoke, or in the hub/flange area where the basket bolts to the motor facing the back of the cone.

[music2myears]

Where the cabinets were positioned in the room (and where they would be in yours) may come into play etc. (The mention of 30" EV's in the back wall - makes it sound like it could have been a large space).

No, it's actually a small sized room, perhaps 3x6x2.5m (WxLxH), and the 2x30" EV are mounted in the back wall - on the other side of this wall is a small storage space, perhaps 3x1x2.5m.

Again, knowing the crossover points will help that thought process along.
i.e. the lower the xover point to the LF gets, the less of the horn loading was occurring, and thus maybe the M19 is just or more suitable.

500Hz & 10kHz
I'm wondering at what frequencies horn loading occurs with the 828 (& the 816)?
I also have a pair of JBL 2220A:s, that I'm not quite sure what to do with, but they seem to be wanting/requiring proper horn loading to produce good bass.

Those are what i call "flat mag" 416's, made for a relatively short window of time, i think circa 1982-84. Most 416-8C have a smaller diameter foilcal which is recessed into a slight depression in the back plate, and most had the rubber tire around the edge of the ferrite to protect it from chipping.
The 391XXX code might be difficult to find, the ones i remember from that era are stamped on the inside of a spoke, or in the hub/flange area where the basket bolts to the motor facing the back of the cone.

Foilcal? Grateful if you can let me know what that is please.
"Flat mags"...are these different when it comes to technical spec. or "sound"?
The number is 391020, if that helps.

[bowtie427ss]

Foilcal is just a term we've all slanged describing the decal on the magnet, rather than a paper or vinyl substrate, many of the Altec decals were actually printed on a heavy guage aluminum foil, thus foilcal.

My understanding based on the comments of others is that the later motor assemblies are an improvement, but i can't offer any first hand experience with one vs. the other.

391020 would date to the 20th week of 1980, so it appears i'm off a bit on the time frame these were made.

[whitebroncoii]

I got off on a tangent with the 816 cabinets when your question included the 416-8C. The 416-8C was the one and only version that used ferrite for the magnet. Earlier versions were Alnico. Although there are plenty of folks that prefer the Alnico, there is little difference in specs or performance.

The 416 was original equipment in the A7 and Model 19. This speaks to its ability to work well in either a base-horn or direct-radiating cabinet.

It is my opinion the 416-8B and 416-8C are almost the same woofer.

[music2myears]

Altec decided to discontinue the 416-8B. The 515 replaced it in the A7. Long-time Altec contractors wanted the 416 returned to the line and in 1981 the 416-8C was introduced.

391020 would date to the 20th week of 1980, so it appears i'm off a bit on the time frame these were made.

If Altec reintroduced the 416 in 1981, in the form of the 416-8C, how does that relate to the EIA code on mine (391020) saying the 20th week of 1980?
Can 391020 possibly mean the 20th week of 1970, or was the 416 reintroduced in 1980?

[bowtie427ss]

Can 391020 possibly mean the 20th week of 1970, or was the 416 reintroduced in 1980?

In 1970 the 416-8B hadn't even been born yet, and i don't think the 16 inch basket had either, or charcoal colored paint for the baskets. In other words, a 1970 416 was an "A" version, was in a small frame, alnico magnet, and likely still in green paint

If there was a "re-introduction" of the 416-8C, it was likely just to introduce the "improved" version.

This same situation was concurrently occurring with the 515E, i suspect similar changes were made around the same time for the same reasons.

Don't quote me, but i think it was around '79 or so when there was a global shortage of Cobalt used in the manufacture of alnico. It was around this time that ALL speaker manufacturers were forced to start using ferrites in their motors.

There is also the EV/Telex "thing" going on about that point in time IIRC.

It's purely a guess as i have nothing to substantiate my claim, but i'll wager yours represent the first style of 416-8C.

Hopefully one of our more knowledgeable veterans will chime in and remove some ????.

[whitebroncoii]

Sorry about the 1981 intro date and the time line. I got it all wrong. It just took a little help from you guys to get my memory working.

Altec converted all magnets from Alnico to ferrite (mid '70s?) when Alnico prices went through the roof. The converted 416-8C sales were very poor. For years contractors told marketing it was because of the ferrite magnet. In the late '80s we re-introduced the 416-8B with its Alnico motor. It never sold in the needed quantities and was again discontinued. This is when I believe the price was too high . . .

Here's what I think is the correct time line;

416-8A
Alnico
12,000 Gauss
3" voice-coil
30W
15 5/16" frame
date on data sheet 1972

416-8B
Alnico
11,000 Gauss
3" voice-coil
75W
16" frame
date on data sheet 1976

416-8C
11,000 Gauss
3" voice-coil
75W
16" frame
date on data sheet 1981

416-8B (again)
Alnico
11,000 Gauss
3" voice-coil
75W
16" frame
date on data sheet 1987